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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Ok, back to the OP. When I cycled live, it was under extremely controlled circumstances. No one around, shooting in a range, weapon pointed downrange. Every time I have had to, it made my ass pucker because I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I had one time that a round went off, and again under extremely controlled circumstances. I was prepared for it to happen, and it still scared the shit out of me. That's why I don't temp fate.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Makemine...:

You've got that straight! Never tempt fate with firearms or chainsaws.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I didn't count how many rounds I would rack out at the end of a shift and never had one Kaboom on me. I would imagine IF you don't clean it properly the pin and spring might mess it up. I know, I know, HP says not to clean it but I did, if not every week at least twice a month I would just wipe it down and run a patch thru it.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:43 pm 
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As I observe the mechanism of my 995 it appears the extractor drags the casing out of the chamber with the energy from blowback. My 995 has no ejector. All my auto pistols have an ejector the kicks out the spent round. On the 995, when the bolt is locked back I can see the firing pin protruding about .375". The tip of the pin is farther forward at that point than the extractor. It appears that the firing pin is doing double duty as ejector. This change in relative position of the pin and extractor flips out the spent cartridge. The xtractor keeps pulling back while at the last second the firing pin bumps the spent cartridge causing it to fly out the port.

If that's correct, the fresh ammo is not in contact with the pin at all. It is protected by the spent ammo in the way. The fresh ammo isn't in play until the bolt changes direction and swipes the fresh round into battery. When the bolt moves forward, the pin remains stationary held in cocked position by the trigger mechanism. So once again, the firing pin is not in play when the bolt swipes the fresh round off the magazine. Once in battery the trigger releases the firing pin.

That's my juvenile understanding of the motion mechanics. Malfs and accidents always can happen but a discharge while cycling would likely not be caused by the firing pin.


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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:57 pm 
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new2shootn wrote:
As I observe the mechanism of my 995 it appears the extractor drags the casing out of the chamber with the energy from blowback. My 995 has no ejector. All my auto pistols have an ejector the kicks out the spent round. On the 995, when the bolt is locked back I can see the firing pin protruding about .375". The tip of the pin is farther forward at that point than the extractor. It appears that the firing pin is doing double duty as ejector. This change in relative position of the pin and extractor flips out the spent cartridge. The xtractor keeps pulling back while at the last second the firing pin bumps the spent cartridge causing it to fly out the port.

If that's correct, the fresh ammo is not in contact with the pin at all. It is protected by the spent ammo in the way. The fresh ammo isn't in play until the bolt changes direction and swipes the fresh round into battery. When the bolt moves forward, the pin remains stationary held in cocked position by the trigger mechanism. So once again, the firing pin is not in play when the bolt swipes the fresh round off the magazine. Once in battery the trigger releases the firing pin.

That's my juvenile understanding of the motion mechanics. Malfs and accidents always can happen but a discharge while cycling would likely not be caused by the firing pin.


I'm not sure about that one bud. Now you may be correct about the 995ts, but I know that the HP pistols will leave small dents in the primer if you live cycle a round. Now, they say that you really don't exert enough power to actually set the primer off while live cycling. But like MakeMine said, I wouldn't temp fate. MakeMine know a little about HP products and I trust whatever he says. Besides, he said if I come visit him, he'll buy the beer. I'll agree with anything he says for a beer. I'm a cheap date. :roflol:

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:29 pm 
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MechWolf wrote:
... I'm a cheap date. :roflol:

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:49 pm 
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The chances of the firing pin setting the round off are very remote, but so is being struck by lightning, and that happens to someone every day.

I do not like the firing pin being the ejector, but it is because of the firing pins getting bent that bothers me.

Mech, any AK rifle is going to leave a dot on the primer when you manually load and eject a round, because it has a free floating firing pin.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:55 pm 
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waltham41 wrote:

Mech, any AK rifle is going to leave a dot on the primer when you manually load and eject a round, because it has a free floating firing pin.


I don't know much about AK's but I was going to get an SKS or better yet a Saiga, until or LGS found out I came into some money and threw them all away. They had an AK but I wasn't paying 600 bucks. I like my balls right where God put them. Lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:20 am 
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mogunner wrote:
One of the things I don't care for in the Hi Point design.


Mo you and I have agreed on this for a long time. They really do need a seperate ejector. Something as simple as a sharks tooth like on a stengun would work fine. The only problem I ever had with my 995TS was bent pins.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:19 am 
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new2shootn wrote:
The fresh ammo isn't in play until the bolt changes direction and swipes the fresh round into battery. When the bolt moves forward, the pin remains stationary held in cocked position by the trigger mechanism.


Actually, this is pretty much correct. Except we were talking about live rounds. ;)
So that firing pin that is acting as an ejector is actually pushing/pressing the firing pin on alive round as the slide is pulled back, which is why if I HAVE to do it, I do it slowly, and I only do it with an empty mag well, because of the next problem.

Which is this. If one doesn't quite pull the slide all the way back, the firing pin doesn't lock back either, in which case, it acts like an open bolt gun, slamming the exposed firing pin into the live round as it chambers. The more common thing would probably be a bent firing pin, but you could also have a round go off.

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Ajole, I could not have explained it better myself.......well done...... :great:

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:38 pm 
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The only way I could see a miss fire is if there was a double feed as the firing pin does not stick out on its own unless the slide is pulled back. Maybe and thats a big maybe because when the slide is in position to strip another round the firing pin is retracted. I have cycled live ammo many times the firing pin does not contact live ammo

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:11 am 
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I must say, every time I see the subject of this thread I gotta think of Randy.

Extraction after premature discharge J/K Randy ...;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Ex_ISP wrote:
I must say, every time I see the subject of this thread I gotta think of Randy.

Extraction after premature discharge J/K Randy ...;-)


No use extracting after that. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Premature Discharge During Extraction
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:00 pm 
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