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 Post subject: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Hi all,

I bought a new 4095 a couple days ago. Took it to the range and ran 150 rounds through it before my finger was nearly bloody!

The trigger on my 4095 is brutal! It has a trigger pull of about 15 lbs. Adding insult to injury the trigger itself has an annoying lip at the bottom that digs into your finger and is painful after about 50 rounds.

I got my Guntech red dot sight dialed in and shot another 40 rounds before my finger just couldn't take it anymore and I had to put it away.

Immediately after returning home I began my trigger exorcism. I took a file to the offending portrusion on the bottom of the trigger until it no longer stabbed into my finger and was comfy. Then I disassembled the gun and used and india stone to smooth the sear cam where it rides on the trigger arm. I also smoothed the sear on the stone so it would break from the firing pin cleanly. I looked all over town for a weaker sear spring to no avail. Ended up using a ball point pen spring which reduced the trigger pull by half. I lightly lubed the firing pin, sear, sear cam and trigger arm with white lithium grease and reassembled.

The trigger pull is MUCH better than it was but still a little "notchy." I think this is about as good as it will ever be mostly because of the trigger mechanism design itself. I'd say on a 10 scale (ten being best) this trigger is now a 5.5 or 6 whereas it was a 1.5 out of the box.

The gun shot very well in spite of the brutal trigger. It grouped a 1/2" hole at 25 yards with store bought ammo (Winchester 180 grn). Looking forward to taking it back to the range this weekend to beat on the new trigger job and see how it holds up.

I think the hi-point attorneys make them use the brutal sear spring so it'll be sure to seat after every shot and not accidentally go into full auto. I'll know more about how this new spring seats the sear by this weekend...


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:43 pm 
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:welcome: :welcome:

Welcome to HPT, hammer. Sure sorry to hear about the trigger problems, first time I've heard any complaints about it. Is this a TS or an old school 4095? I don't know what the trigger pull normally is, but it sounds like your's was higher than normal. The trigger on my 995TS pulls pretty smoothly and isn't at all heavy. The trigger on my old JS-45 is smooth as butter, but still a tad heavy after quite a few thousand rounds. Doesn't bother me any and still breaks crisply.

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Welcome and let us know how the trigger is on your Range visit .


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:51 am 
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Welcome from Colorado. :mrgreen:

I don't own and have never shot a 4095 (old version or new TS), but I own and love an old style 995. And I don't recall if I've ever heard anyone complain about the triggers on any of the Hi points to the extent of what you're describing? So I'd have to say (just from experience) that your trigger might be an out of the ordinary "quality issue"? :dunno:

Sounds like it was really bad? My advice would be to call HP and ask for either a new trigger assembly (springs, sear, etc...) or to let them know of the problem and that you're sending it in for warranty work. Their warranty is probably the best in the business right now and I wouldn't hesitate to utilize it if your trigger is (or was) as bad as you say.

I say that because I don't know how much experience you have with modifying triggers? But that can be a dangerous thing to mess around with. Both physically and legally. And I wouldn't reccomend doing that to anyone. :?

If you were to get it a bit to "loose" by weakening the sear spring and smoothing out the sear and then have it go into full auto at the range..... The best case scenario is no one notices or bothers to say anything. Middle of the road happenstance might be a legal nightmare due to having law enforcement called because you're found to have a fully auto gun with no license to do so. Which is a bunch of BS. But that's another story all together. And of course worse case scenario would be an accidental shooting of a fellow shooter at the range. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:52 am 
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I see I didn't specify that it's a spankin new 4095TS. As such I suspect this is a teething issue on their new line of carbiines.

I do all my own trigger work on all of my firearms. Virtually all firearms come from the manufacturer with harder than necessary triggers. This is partly a result of cost (it's expensive to have someone do the fine work on a trigger) and partly to cover their butts in case a dopey shooter buys/gets their hands on one and accidentally shoots themselves or someone else.

I'm aware of H/P's terrific warranty but I don't think sending my 4095TS back is going to solve anything. In fact, it will put me right back to where I was before I did the trigger job. The primary reason for this is the sear spring rate from the factory is extremely stiff, so stiff you can barely collapse the spring squeezing it between your fingers with all your might (FYI I can annihilate a dixie cup with cup crushing mashers....have to be very careful when taking a leak though...:-)).

I'm well aware of the risk posed that the gun could go full auto with a lighter spring and or sear work but after several tests of racking the action the sear is engaging without fail.

It should also be noted that when you do a trigger job you use a fine sharpening/hone stone and you only remove the manufacturing imperfections of the parts that you'd need a magnafying glass to see. It's a slow process as you rub the part back & forth a few times then examine it & repeat till you end up with a polished part. The amount of material removed is so little the factory wouldn't be able to mic it & determine if there was a loss of material if you've done the job properly (these variances in thousandths of an inch of each part in a mass production line are inevitable).

The smoothing of the sear was a delicate process and only knocked down the high edges created during manufacturing.

I've seen many people tell others to sit in front of their TV and squeeze the trigger several hundred times to "wear in" the trigger. That's one way to do it but what they don't realize is it's a lot easier to spend 10 minutes taking the gun apart and simply using a 400 grit sandpaper to sand (or india stone) the black paint/coating that's on the entire breach block ONLY from the small raised spot the trigger arm slides against. It is this paint/coating that is being rubbed off in the "wearing in" process and to some extent the other parts are seating themselves in their respective homes as well.

The 995TS I shot before buying my 4095TS didn't have a great trigger either. It wasn't as tough as mine was but close. I hope the heavy spring rate isn't necessary to engage the sear and it all works out. I'll have the factory spring with me in case it does do a full auto dump with the lighter spring and hopefully it won't. If the heavier spring does indeed have to be reinstalled that would be a deal breaker for me and this gun would go to a new owner. On the other hand if it works without malfunctioning with the lighter spring it'll be with me a very long time and make this incrediblely affordable piece an even more fantastic bargain. If the lighter spring locks the sear I'll know I'm on the right track and look for an even lighter spring, about half the rate of this one (the one I robbed from my ball point pen), and see how that goes. Ultimately I'd like to get the trigger pull in the 3 lbs range which is where all my other triggers are. I couldn't find my trigger pull gauge but I'd guess this trigger is now in the 6-7 lbs range.

I shoot year round here and that means I'm in weather as warm as high 90's in the summer and snow in the winter and everything in between so I'll have a good read on the operational sensitivity of this setup vs the factory setup.

Looking forward to this next range session to see how it pans out...


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:08 am 
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Sounds like you know what you are doing, but please be careful about changing out the sear springs..... we have a member that tried that and ended up shooting a hole in his floor.

Keep us posted! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:16 pm 
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waltham41 wrote:
Sounds like you know what you are doing, but please be careful about changing out the sear springs..... we have a member that tried that and ended up shooting a hole in his floor.

Keep us posted! :)


By chance, did this member indicate what kind of threatening action the floor exhibited before he shot it? ;)

On a more serious note, I appreciate the reminder and will be methodically cautious when I try it out...


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Didn't mean to sound like "Dad"..... Just wanted to make sure you weren't diving into something you weren't aware of is all. ;) And it sounds as though you know what you're doing. ;)

I personally smooth most internal components of all my guns with a dremel. But I avoid doing any spring changes for fear of doing something stupid. lol
I don't have enough experience or knowledge to play with guns that way. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:55 am
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sledge hammer wrote:
(FYI I can annihilate a dixie cup with cup crushing mashers....have to be very careful when taking a leak though...:-)).


:roflol: :roflol: :laugh: :laugh:

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RIP jerry Roberts - woodyubet

I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders - Ted Nugent

A free people ought not only to be armed and disclipined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government - George Washington

The problem with posting quotes off the internet is you never know if they're genuine -George Washington, at the Battle of Gettysburg, Februrary 30, 1908


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:33 pm 
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OK just got back from the range. Gun shot VERY well without any problems related to the sear spring. Out of 200 rounds I had 3 FTF's and that is because I need to polish the feed ramp. The trigger is MUCH better than it was out of the box. Night & day difference.

Secondarily, I did some digging a few days ago and found an outfit that has a lighter/proper sized spring to replace the sear spring. This spring is 316 Stainless but the wire is 45% smaller than the diameter of the factory spring. This new stainless spring will give me a trigger pull in the 5 lbs range but it will not be effected by the heat build up as the gun is fired.

The ballpiont pen spring I have in there now worked very well today but the problem with it is two fold:

First it's too long and has to be stuffed into position. It works but should be shorter.

Second, the ability to survive the heat and a collateral concern of spring durability.

So for now it works extremely well and I'm anxious to put the new stainless spring in when they arrive (I bought a few in case I lose one while cleaning it) and try it out. The gun shoots one ragged hole at 25 yards with Winchester 180 grn pills. I had so much fun shooting it by time I thought to try it at 50 yards I'd already gone through 200 rounds and had nothing left to shoot!

And that's the truth so help me...


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:55 am
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Most excellent news. Good to hear. Now, as to your source for the spring...is this an on-line place you can post a like to?

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RIP Dave Gillespie - Sharp Shooter
RIP jerry Roberts - woodyubet

I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders - Ted Nugent

A free people ought not only to be armed and disclipined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government - George Washington

The problem with posting quotes off the internet is you never know if they're genuine -George Washington, at the Battle of Gettysburg, Februrary 30, 1908


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:32 am 
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codger wrote:
Most excellent news. Good to hear. Now, as to your source for the spring...is this an on-line place you can post a like to?

+1 :thumb:

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:09 am 
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Ya the outfit I ordered it from is Lee Spring. This link should take you directly to the exact spring... (removed link so as to not confuse anyone when I find the correct spring).

I would caution you to wait until I receive the springs I ordered before ordering yourself. The reason I say this is because I want to make sure the spring fits, works and will give the pull I'm calculating. I've had things not work out as planned before and I'd hate for everyone to start ordering these springs to find they don't work. Also, the springs are $6.66 ea plus a $20.00 fee (for not buying a package of 10 springs-I think a package was in the $60.00 range) plus $shipping$. So as you can see you'll have a little bit of an investment in the spring doing it this way. If this works out it might be a good idea for a group to get together and buy a 10 pack, have them delivered to one guy who then puts them in a regular legal sized envelope and mails them to 9 other members to make it more economical. That would bring the individual spring cost down to around $7.00 ea which is much better than the $32.00 I paid by time it all added up. Just some food for thought...


Last edited by sledge hammer on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:47 pm 
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:great: Thanks.

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RIP Dave Gillespie - Sharp Shooter
RIP jerry Roberts - woodyubet

I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders - Ted Nugent

A free people ought not only to be armed and disclipined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government - George Washington

The problem with posting quotes off the internet is you never know if they're genuine -George Washington, at the Battle of Gettysburg, Februrary 30, 1908


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 Post subject: Re: Trigger Job
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:08 pm 
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Springs arrived today. I pulled the ball point pen spring and replaced it with the new stainless spring. Trigger pull is identical and spring tension appears to be identical to the ball point spring (to give those of you wondering what it might be like a point of reference).

I tossed a snap cap in there and cocked and fired it several times with the sear engaging every time. So far so good. A range trip this Sat should confirm all is well with this setup....


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